Author:
Subject: Graphite from dissolved electrode
Graphite from dissolved electrode
I tried electrolysis of copper sulphate with bad graphite electrode and it dissolved into the solution. After many filtrations is the solution still
black-ish and after short googling I did not find easy way to get rid of it.
So, does anyone know if there is an easy way to remove graphite from solution to get solution of clean copper sulphate for other uses?
Well graphite doesn't dissolve in aqueous solution. More likely it's lots of tiny carbon particles that are so small they just sail through filter
paper. You can wait a long time (several days, probably) and they should settle out, and you can decant from there. I've heard that boiling solutions
with suspensions can cause particles to aggregate and fall out quicker, but somehow I doubt that will work with graphite. You could also try adding a
flocculant like alum which should encourage precipitation. A recrystallization or two will get rid of any contamination it adds.
Edit: Wikipedia has a good explanation of how flocculants work:
Quote:Particles finer than 0.1 µm (10−7m) in water remain continuously in motion due to electrostatic charge (often negative) which causes them to repel
each other. Once their electrostatic charge is neutralized by the use of a coagulant chemical, the finer particles start to collide and agglomerate
(collect together) under the influence of Van der Waals's forces. These larger and heavier particles are called flocs.
Flocculants, or flocculating agents (also known as flocking agents), are chemicals that promote flocculation by causing colloids and other suspended
particles in liquids to aggregate, forming a floc. Flocculants are used in water treatment processes to improve the sedimentation or filterability of
small particles. For example, a flocculant may be used in swimming pool or drinking water filtration to aid removal of microscopic particles which
would otherwise cause the water to be turbid (cloudy) and which would be difficult or impossible to remove by filtration alone.
Many flocculants are multivalent cations such as aluminium, iron, calcium or magnesium.[1] These positively charged molecules interact with negatively
charged particles and molecules to reduce the barriers to aggregation. In addition, many of these chemicals, under appropriate pH and other conditions
such as temperature and salinity, react with water to form insoluble hydroxides which, upon precipitating, link together to form long chains or
meshes, physically trapping small particles into the larger floc.
So maybe it will work with graphite after all.
[Edited on 8-5-2016 by MrHomeScientist]
Well just curious, where did I say that graphite dissolved? The only thing that dissolved was the graphite electrode. Settling does not work since the
particles are so small that they're still in the solution after more than week.
The flocculant idea sounds good, I will look into it, thanks for advice
"Graphite from dissolved electrode"
"graphite electrode and it dissolved"
In chemistry, "dissolve" has a very particular meaning:
from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolution_(chemistry)
"The dissolution of gases, liquids, or solids into a liquid or other solvent is a process by which these original states become solutes (dissolved
components), forming a
solution of the gas, liquid, or solid in the original solvent." (emphasis mine)
from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solution
"Characteristics:
[1] A solution is a homogeneous mixture of two or more substances.
[2] The particles of solute in a solution cannot be seen by the naked eye.
[3] A solution does not allow beams of light to scatter.
[4] A solution is stable.
[5] The solute from a solution cannot be separated by filtration (or mechanically).
[6] It is composed of only one phase."
Your liquid may satisfy some of those, but it violates 2, 6, and probably 3 and 4.
This may seem a bit pedantic, but it's important to be precise in science. Perhaps a better word for your situation would be that the electrode
"disintegrated."
Anyways I'm interested to hear how this turns out. Let us know if you make any progress.
You could try diatomaceous earth, I used it to clean up the graphite in some of my chlorate cells.
It is sometimes available as a swimming pool filtering agent and also from some gardening centres.
Put a thin layer on top of your filter paper, you'll need a straight sided funnel with a flat bottom (Buchner) and possibly vacuum or pressure.
Quote: Originally posted by MrHomeScientist
"Graphite from dissolved electrode"
"graphite electrode and it dissolved"
Sorry, but I don't see a mention about dissolved graphite. That bad electrode was containing mainly graphite and bonding material under coating that I
removed. After I turned the electrolysis on, sulfuric acid, which was produced, reacted with bonding material and dissolved it. So the electrode
dissolved and left very small particles of graphite in solution. I want to get rid off these small particles that can't be filtered or settled.
As MHS said, "dissolved" is not the word you are after for this phenomenon. Corroded is more like it.
I have used graphite rods from batteries and copper sulfate to produce sulfuric acid from electrolysis. You are right that the electrodes do not last
-- although it is better if you keep the current low.
It takes a few days but the black crud does settle and you can decant or pipette the liquid you want from the top. Gravity filtering with a good
filter paper also works but is not actually much quicker.
For future reference, a strip of lead makes a far superior anode. It quickly builds up a layer of lead dioxide which performs its function admirably.
Mine was an old piece of lead flashing which I cleaned up. This is a simple but slow way of making sulfuric acid. It is a great way of making lead
dioxide electrodes. (Although I admit to not having tested them under extreme conditions.)
Graphite from dissolved electrode - Powered by XMB 1.9.11
Author:
Subject: Graphite from dissolved electrode
Graphite from dissolved electrode
I tried electrolysis of copper sulphate with bad graphite electrode and it dissolved into the solution. After many filtrations is the solution still
black-ish and after short googling I did not find easy way to get rid of it.
So, does anyone know if there is an easy way to remove graphite from solution to get solution of clean copper sulphate for other uses?
Well graphite doesn't dissolve in aqueous solution. More likely it's lots of tiny carbon particles that are so small they just sail through filter
paper. You can wait a long time (several days, probably) and they should settle out, and you can decant from there. I've heard that boiling solutions
with suspensions can cause particles to aggregate and fall out quicker, but somehow I doubt that will work with graphite. You could also try adding a
flocculant like alum which should encourage precipitation. A recrystallization or two will get rid of any contamination it adds.
Edit: Wikipedia has a good explanation of how flocculants work:
Quote:Particles finer than 0.1 µm (10−7m) in water remain continuously in motion due to electrostatic charge (often negative) which causes them to repel
each other. Once their electrostatic charge is neutralized by the use of a coagulant chemical, the finer particles start to collide and agglomerate
(collect together) under the influence of Van der Waals's forces. These larger and heavier particles are called flocs.
Flocculants, or flocculating agents (also known as flocking agents), are chemicals that promote flocculation by causing colloids and other suspended
particles in liquids to aggregate, forming a floc. Flocculants are used in water treatment processes to improve the sedimentation or filterability of
small particles. For example, a flocculant may be used in swimming pool or drinking water filtration to aid removal of microscopic particles which
would otherwise cause the water to be turbid (cloudy) and which would be difficult or impossible to remove by filtration alone.
Many flocculants are multivalent cations such as aluminium, iron, calcium or magnesium.[1] These positively charged molecules interact with negatively
charged particles and molecules to reduce the barriers to aggregation. In addition, many of these chemicals, under appropriate pH and other conditions
such as temperature and salinity, react with water to form insoluble hydroxides which, upon precipitating, link together to form long chains or
meshes, physically trapping small particles into the larger floc.
So maybe it will work with graphite after all.
[Edited on 8-5-2016 by MrHomeScientist]
Well just curious, where did I say that graphite dissolved? The only thing that dissolved was the graphite electrode. Settling does not work since the
particles are so small that they're still in the solution after more than week.
The flocculant idea sounds good, I will look into it, thanks for advice
"Graphite from dissolved electrode"
"graphite electrode and it dissolved"
In chemistry, "dissolve" has a very particular meaning:
from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolution_(chemistry)
"The dissolution of gases, liquids, or solids into a liquid or other solvent is a process by which these original states become solutes (dissolved
components), forming a
solution of the gas, liquid, or solid in the original solvent." (emphasis mine)
from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solution
"Characteristics:
[1] A solution is a homogeneous mixture of two or more substances.
[2] The particles of solute in a solution cannot be seen by the naked eye.
[3] A solution does not allow beams of light to scatter.
[4] A solution is stable.
[5] The solute from a solution cannot be separated by filtration (or mechanically).
[6] It is composed of only one phase."
Your liquid may satisfy some of those, but it violates 2, 6, and probably 3 and 4.
This may seem a bit pedantic, but it's important to be precise in science. Perhaps a better word for your situation would be that the electrode
"disintegrated."
Anyways I'm interested to hear how this turns out. Let us know if you make any progress.
You could try diatomaceous earth, I used it to clean up the graphite in some of my chlorate cells.
It is sometimes available as a swimming pool filtering agent and also from some gardening centres.
Put a thin layer on top of your filter paper, you'll need a straight sided funnel with a flat bottom (Buchner) and possibly vacuum or pressure.
Quote: Originally posted by MrHomeScientist
"Graphite from dissolved electrode"
"graphite electrode and it dissolved"
Sorry, but I don't see a mention about dissolved graphite. That bad electrode was containing mainly graphite and bonding material under coating that I
removed. After I turned the electrolysis on, sulfuric acid, which was produced, reacted with bonding material and dissolved it. So the electrode
dissolved and left very small particles of graphite in solution. I want to get rid off these small particles that can't be filtered or settled.
As MHS said, "dissolved" is not the word you are after for this phenomenon. Corroded is more like it.
I have used graphite rods from batteries and copper sulfate to produce sulfuric acid from electrolysis. You are right that the electrodes do not last
-- although it is better if you keep the current low.
It takes a few days but the black crud does settle and you can decant or pipette the liquid you want from the top. Gravity filtering with a good
filter paper also works but is not actually much quicker.
For future reference, a strip of lead makes a far superior anode. It quickly builds up a layer of lead dioxide which performs its function admirably.
Mine was an old piece of lead flashing which I cleaned up. This is a simple but slow way of making sulfuric acid. It is a great way of making lead
dioxide electrodes. (Although I admit to not having tested them under extreme conditions.)
Chemical Electric CELL with graphite electrodesgraphite electrodes?
Borek said:
I am not sure what you mean by Cu/graphite - solid Cu and graphite, or Cu2+ and graphite? For the cell (galvanic) to work you need two half reactions. One must be reduction, the other one oxidation. Having just a solution of cation may give you system ready for reduction, but what is going to be oxidized? Try to write reaction equations.
Sorry, I was not clear...
What I really wanted to find out is :
In chemical Cells - if the electrodes are Copper (solid) and Graphite (instead of the usual cells with two different metals) in a electrolyte of aq NaOH, will it works?
What about if it is Magnesium(solid) and Graphite instead - in the same settings.
I was wondering - the cells work on redox. In Cu / Mg electrodes cell, the more reactive metal Mg oxidizes and gives off electrons and becomes the negative terminal, the electrons than travels to Cu electrode and forms a close circuit with the aq NaOH. and the cell is functioning.
In Copper / Graphite [and Magnesium / Graphite] case mentioned, Graphite is not part of the metal reactivity series. And hence with the Graphite oxidizes and gives off electrons ? It most likely not - as what ions will Graphite form? Then, will the set up actually works?
Would it work for Magnesium / Graphite electrode case? Mg is more reactive, hence oxidises and becomes negative electrode, the electrons then travels to the Graphite electrode into the aq NaOH to form a close circuit... would this be correct way of reasoning?
Very interesting - juz that I do not have a lab to just try it out and confirm if the set up can work or not ?
Anyone can help?
Many thanks...
Sorry, I was not clear...What I really wanted to find out is :In chemical Cells - if the electrodes are Copper (solid) and Graphite (instead of the usual cells with two different metals) in a electrolyte of aq NaOH, will it works?What about if it is Magnesium(solid) and Graphite instead - in the same settings.I was wondering - the cells work on redox. In Cu / Mg electrodes cell, the more reactive metal Mg oxidizes and gives off electrons and becomes the negative terminal, the electrons than travels to Cu electrode and forms a close circuit with the aq NaOH. and the cell is functioning.In Copper / Graphite [and Magnesium / Graphite] case mentioned, Graphite is not part of the metal reactivity series. And hence with the Graphite oxidizes and gives off electrons ? It most likely not - as what ions will Graphite form? Then, will the set up actually works?Would it work for Magnesium / Graphite electrode case? Mg is more reactive, hence oxidises and becomes negative electrode, the electrons then travels to the Graphite electrode into the aq NaOH to form a close circuit... would this be correct way of reasoning?Very interesting - juz that I do not have a lab to just try it out and confirm if the set up can work or not ?Anyone can help?Many thanks...
Chemical Electric CELL with graphite electrodes?
Borek said:
For more graphite electrode priceinformation, please contact us. We will provide professional answers.
I am not sure what you mean by Cu/graphite - solid Cu and graphite, or Cu2+ and graphite? For the cell (galvanic) to work you need two half reactions. One must be reduction, the other one oxidation. Having just a solution of cation may give you system ready for reduction, but what is going to be oxidized? Try to write reaction equations.
Sorry, I was not clear...
What I really wanted to find out is :
In chemical Cells - if the electrodes are Copper (solid) and Graphite (instead of the usual cells with two different metals) in a electrolyte of aq NaOH, will it works?
What about if it is Magnesium(solid) and Graphite instead - in the same settings.
I was wondering - the cells work on redox. In Cu / Mg electrodes cell, the more reactive metal Mg oxidizes and gives off electrons and becomes the negative terminal, the electrons than travels to Cu electrode and forms a close circuit with the aq NaOH. and the cell is functioning.
In Copper / Graphite [and Magnesium / Graphite] case mentioned, Graphite is not part of the metal reactivity series. And hence with the Graphite oxidizes and gives off electrons ? It most likely not - as what ions will Graphite form? Then, will the set up actually works?
Would it work for Magnesium / Graphite electrode case? Mg is more reactive, hence oxidises and becomes negative electrode, the electrons then travels to the Graphite electrode into the aq NaOH to form a close circuit... would this be correct way of reasoning?
Very interesting - juz that I do not have a lab to just try it out and confirm if the set up can work or not ?
Anyone can help?
Many thanks...
Sorry, I was not clear...What I really wanted to find out is :In chemical Cells - if the electrodes are Copper (solid) and Graphite (instead of the usual cells with two different metals) in a electrolyte of aq NaOH, will it works?What about if it is Magnesium(solid) and Graphite instead - in the same settings.I was wondering - the cells work on redox. In Cu / Mg electrodes cell, the more reactive metal Mg oxidizes and gives off electrons and becomes the negative terminal, the electrons than travels to Cu electrode and forms a close circuit with the aq NaOH. and the cell is functioning.In Copper / Graphite [and Magnesium / Graphite] case mentioned, Graphite is not part of the metal reactivity series. And hence with the Graphite oxidizes and gives off electrons ? It most likely not - as what ions will Graphite form? Then, will the set up actually works?Would it work for Magnesium / Graphite electrode case? Mg is more reactive, hence oxidises and becomes negative electrode, the electrons then travels to the Graphite electrode into the aq NaOH to form a close circuit... would this be correct way of reasoning?Very interesting - juz that I do not have a lab to just try it out and confirm if the set up can work or not ?Anyone can help?Many thanks...
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