How to Save Money When Buying marine navigation equipment

Registered User
Join Date: Jun Location: East Coast USA Posts: 6 Best ways to compromise on a boat to save money. Hi guys!

I've changed careers to software engineering in the hopes of transitioning to a full-time remote job and live aboard lifestyle! I'm a millennial, saddled with lots of student debt, and not a lot of savings. The goal is to buy a boat in 2 years, and I'm saving as much as I can. However, I'm going to be looking for every way to save money that I can possibly take advantage of.

I'm willing to undertake difficult projects, don't really care about the aesthetic of the boat, and have a goal of living aboard and working on it for a year before actually casting off.

When buying a boat, what are the projects you could conceivably complete for less money than you're saving by buying the boat without said work already done? Said another way: what things would bring the sticker price of a boat down, but aren't that big of a deal to fix?

While I don't have any practical experience, I'm confident I could complete restoration of wooden parts, power/navigation/equipment upgrades/repairs/refits, etc given time and an internet connection.

Thanks in advance for your input guys! Registered User
Join Date: Oct Posts: 2,007 Re: Best ways to compromise on a boat to save money. This is extremely difficult. If you actually want to go sailing, you would be better off buying a smaller, simpler boat that is ready to go, even if you have to work an extra year or two to do it. All boat projects take longer and cost far more than you think.

But, if you really want to... the things that can bring down the value of a boat that can be redone to get you a better boat for cheaper are relatively few. A boat with very outdated navigation electronics is usually one place to go. You'll want to do these your way anyway.

Another is to look for one where the engine is toast. Repowering is a big job, but can get you a better boat. Because the project intimidates many buyers it tends to drive the price down by more than the project costs. Registered User
Join Date: May Location: Bermuda Boat: Heritage West Indies 36
Posts: 1,016 Re: Best ways to compromise on a boat to save money. I kind of did this about twelve years ago. Bought a cheap boat, fixed it up, went sailing around the world. It worked out very well and I'm glad I did it all, but from a more cynical perspective I basically spent 8 years working up to my voyage doing nothing else. The project took all of my time when I wasn't working and every last penny I earned that wasn't going in to savings to pay for the voyage.

From a purely financial perspective what I did made no sense either. I estimate that I've spent about three or four times the current value of the boat. I thought it was in good structural condition. I even paid a surveyor to do a detailed survey and writeup. It was bull$#@*. Yes, I saved on 8 years of rent, but it was a pretty miserable existence living in a workshop for all that time.

I highly recommend saving up a bit more and buying a boat that is already in good condition. That being said, in answer to your question:

The overall impression of a boat is pribably the biggest price-determining factor. If she looks shabby then you can get a lot of money off. The problem is, if she has been neglected aesthetically then she has probably been neglected in other ways too.

Look for boat systems that don't work but which you don't need anyway, use them to drive the price down and then simply remove those systems. Examples include:
- radar
-Loran
-SSB
-chart plotter
- wind instruments
- pressure water system
- knotlog
- depth sounder (though this one is quite handy.....)
- superfluous lights

I'm sure there are many other things too, just use your judgement.

Leaks are a big one. If there are leaks that haven't done any major damage yet it might just be a case of replacing a gasket. Visualise a new coat of paint on stuff and see if the problem goes away. Same applies for stains on the hull, rust stains etc. but beware corrosion. That is not the same kettle of fish. Registered User
Join Date: Aug Location: Sozopol Boat: Riva 48
Posts: 1,413 Re: Best ways to compromise on a boat to save money. Here are a couple of truisms:

Unless you are retired or independently wealthy, you are better off working and paying someone to do the job (specialization, Adam Smith).

A boat only makes financial sense if you are displacing cost, ie you live the live aboard lifestyle, pay $600 rent to the Marina, save $2,600 rental cost. Otherwise you lose money.

There are some projects that can easily be done by yourself (electronics, plumbing, interior work) but then there are others that require a special skill (rigging, fiberglass work, engine work). You can learn how to fix the engines (boat engines are simple but there is a learning curve). Best bet is to find experienced sailors in your area that an help you choose a boat according to your needs and skills.

SV Pizzazz Registered User
Join Date: Sep Location: On the boat, somewhere in Australia. Boat: Swanson 42 & Kelly Peterson 44
Posts: 9,409 Re: Best ways to compromise on a boat to save money. One point I rarely see mentioned in these discussions is the aspect of the boat&#;s performance in terms of its ability to be sailed in the manner and location the owner is likely to use her.

I had a budget 7 years ago that limited my choices (as we all mostly do) and I chose a boat with a proven sailing record over other boats with much better interiors, fitout and equipment.

I have no regrets about the time it has taken me to refit the boat because all along I&#;ve had a boat that sails extremely well and has handled everything I&#;ve thrown at her.

Over the intervening 7 years I&#;ve seen dozens of boats be bought and sold around me as the owners were disappointed with their performance or the boats could not handle the role that was envisaged for them. I&#;ve sailed on a few, and have often crewed to help new owners become accustomed to their purchase and, frankly, some boats are serious dogs.

So, to the OP, getting fixated on where you can save money by DIY is ok, but no amount of DIY will change the fundamental characteristics of a sailing boat, so focus on this part first. __________________
Refitting&#; again. Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Nov Location: Port Credit, Ontario or Bahamas Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 7,592 Re: Best ways to compromise on a boat to save money. Quote: Originally Posted by chambrse Hi guys!
I'm going to be looking for every way to save money that I can possibly take advantage of Corpses can be brought back to life. I've done it three times and each one cost far more than the boat was worth. That was ok with me as I knew what I was getting into and didn't mind. I paid 25k for the boat in my avatar and put another $60k and 4 years into it. I might get $75k for it.

The vast majority of "project" boats end up abandoned because people either underestimated the costs, the time involved or their skill level.

Once in a while somebody pulls out a winner. If you want to be one of those start to educate yourself about how to look at a boat. I suggest you start here.

Marine Survey 101, pre-survey inspection __________________
If you're not laughing, you're not doin' it right. Registered User
Join Date: Nov Location: Arizona USA Boat: Tayana 37 PH
Posts: 263 Re: Best ways to compromise on a boat to save money. I don't want to sound discouraging. Everybody should have a goal or dream to accomplish. Your interest in boat selection strategy is little premature.
I was in your field for decades. So.. get well paying job and move up in your carrier by moving from one company to another (from one town to another) to cover big chunk of SW development experience. When you hit 120-130K mark start thinking about buying a boat. Rent a room and spend weekend sailing. There are some software segments which allow to cruise and work... but I would not hold high expectations for such possibility. Management is not very tolerant when it comes up you working from your boat and not from your home office. Unless your are not replaceable and have decades of very specific experience. Get 30 footer (or less) in docent shape ($20K) - it is 2-3 months of your salary (hopefully) - sail the hell out of her next few years - may be sailing from one job to another along the east coast. And... steer clear from marriage. Registered User
Join Date: Jan Location: Victoria BC Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 1,393 Re: Best ways to compromise on a boat to save money. I did what you are proposing, bought the first boat I looked at (don't do this) for just over 10k CAD and moved aboard at the age of 31. Spent 5 years learning how to sail (I literally had no idea what a halyard was) and fixing and upgrading the boat, while working a normal job.

I liked living on the boat, saved on rent and having redone basically every single system (including ripping every single piece of wiring out and replacing, inc panels etc) I know it like the back of my hand. Not very financially prudent though.

On the plus side I did a LOT of weekend trips and anchored out a ton, with a number of longer week / month long trips thrown in there every summer as well as racing the boat in a few races. Being able to use the boat and take it out in between boat jobs is really important

Left my job last year and sailed towards Alaska and then headed back down the coast to Mexico.

I don't work remotely (though I'm in IT) but this summer I flew back to Canada for 5 months and worked during the summer on contracts, and am back at the boat now Registered User
Join Date: May Location: Hailing Minny, MN Boat: Vancouver 27
Posts: 1,098 Images: 1 Re: Best ways to compromise on a boat to save money. There's never been a better time to do what you want to do. You can find decent internet in some pretty wild places these days, and you've got the right idea building up your work network locally before you really cast the lines off.

You asked: "When buying a boat, what are the projects you could complete for less money than you're saving by buying the boat without said work already done?"

Maybe aesthetics, but that often belies deeper issues. I'd say you will save money across the board by the boat being in good basic condition upfront. Hull, rigging, sails, engine, etc.

Ditto for system updates made by a previous owner competently. You are in a position to save substantially if you can find a boat that was already setup by the previous owner to do what you want it do to. The tradeoff is that you don't know the systems as well as if you were involved in the fitting out.

Get on some boats and find out what you want. Then find one in good basic condition and do your best to learn all the systems firsthand. If you plan to cruise away from home, time spent learning your boat and how to keep the systems running is the best investment you can make in terms of money, time and safety. You don't have to be skilled tradesman in every dept, but you should shoot for the best basic skills that you can muster across the board. Plumber, electrician, rigger, diesel mechanic, etc.. Books are great. Youtube is great. You can learn a lot about this stuff before you even buy the boat. Then, once you do, whatever you feel you have to hire out along the way, be sure you're there looking over their shoulder and asking smart questions.

Once you buy, don't spend too much time getting things "just so". Make yourself and the boat seaworthy and hone your sailing and boathandling skills. Take larger and larger jumps outside your comfort zone. Do plenty of daysailing, then maybe some coastal jumps, then some overnights. Bring on new systems only if you've discovered you actually truly want them, and strive for self-sufficiency.

Cheers and good luck! Registered User
Join Date: Mar Location: New Zealand Boat: 50&#; Bavaria
Posts: 1,824 Re: Best ways to compromise on a boat to save money. The best way to get a discount on a boat in any condition is to buy it in the &#;wrong&#; place. That is, a boat that someone&#;s sailed to the end of an easy leg and now is sick of it, run out of money, and/or can&#;t sail back easily.

Somewhere near the Panama Canal (particularly west, like down below Mexico) is good for this. Likewise the western end of the Pacific Islands, or possibly PNG/Indonesia way.

In these places, there are a lot of boats arriving but very few people living there who actually want to (or can afford to) buy a boat. The next part of the trip is a long way, or upwind back.

The opposite of this is places like the med, the Solent, Florida etc. Tons of people wanting to start there and buy a boat.

You&#;d think that Australia and New Zealand might be included in the &#;cheap&#; list, but they aren&#;t that good as there are comparatively fewer boats that make it this far, and our distance from most of the manufacturers and boat shows means that second-hand boats have a higher value than they might in other locations.

Electronics technology is constantly improving, offering ever more impressive capabilities, writes Mike Reynolds.

HUAZHONG contains other products and information you need, so please check it out.

It is making navigation easier, quicker and more accurate, and useful information easier to access.

It&#;s making recording and displaying historical data possible, supplementing the real-time (now) data we&#;re used to.

It costs, but only if substantial replacement of hardware is necessary.

We decided we wanted the best of both worlds &#; standard hardware with longevity, and software with the flexibility to take advantage of emerging trends.

We are electronics enthusiasts and configuring electronics isn&#;t everyone&#;s cup of tea.

But a little effort can deliver the very latest capabilities, tailored to your boat, for minimal additional cost.

For those not inclined to experiment, this article illustrates capabilities coming to future &#;plug and play&#; systems.

Our boat Zen Again is a s 34ft 3/4 tonner which we purchased 10 years ago.

She is fitted with a robust cruising navigation and communications system, with built-in redundancy.

For some years we&#;ve used standard NMEA- sensors for position, speeds, depth and AIS.

The data is sent via WiFi to a laptop at the chart table and waterproof tablets on deck.

Recently we&#;ve added a NMEA- weather station which added wind, temperature, atmospheric pressure and 3D attitude.

This required new SignalK interface technology to replace the old NMEA- traditionally used over WiFi.

SignalK became a springboard into some really useful capabilities.

I will describe what we&#;ve done, and what it cost.

You can stop anywhere along the process but the further you go the better the capabilities, and the value of the investment!

Electronics: Gathering the Data

When contemplating upgrades we keep in mind our prioritised data list:

• Position (from GNSS systems &#; GPS, Galileo, Glonass, collectively &#;GPS&#;)
• Water depth n Boat speed and heading
• Speed and course over ground (SoG and CoG)
• Autopilot n Communication (VHF plus SSB and/or Satphone)
• AIS transceiver
• Wind sensor (apparent wind)
• Environment sensor (atmospheric pressure, air temperature, attitude)
• Radar

The autopilot is important enough for us to have two fully installed and calibrated units.

Radar is last since AIS pushed it down the list.

We had radar but it failed years ago.

A replacement hasn&#;t made the cut yet and we&#;ll ignore it here.

We&#;ll also ignore SSB and satphones.

Recognising that AIS transceivers integrate GPS we can translate the data list into a list of system elements:

• AIS (position, time, SoG, CoG, traffic)
• Thru-hull sensor (boat speed, water depth, water temperature, 3D attitude)
• Autopilot (heading, rudder angle, route-related data, 3D attitude)
• VHF (DSC messages)
• Wind sensor (apparent wind)
• Environment sensor (atmospheric pressure, air temperature, 3D attitude)

It&#;s interesting that 3D attitude is appearing in so many sensors.

The technology is now very cheap and easy to integrate into products.

Our research revealed the availability of NMEA- weather stations.

These integrate high-speed GPS and measure apparent wind, ground wind, air temperature, atmospheric pressure, 3D attitude and more.

No moving parts. It gave us all the environmental data we wanted and addressed a desire for GPS redundancy.

So our list became:

• AIS transceiver (about £800)
• Thru-hull sensor (about £300)
• Autopilot (about £1,300 tiller, about £2,500 wheel)
• VHF transceiver (about £300)
• Weather station (about £1,500)

All of these system elements are readily available with NMEA- interfaces.

The total cost is under £5,000 for tiller and £6,000 for wheel auto-pilots including cabling and mounting gear.

To save £1,200 the weather station could be replaced with a wind sensor (about £300).

We valued GPS redundancy and environment data highly so installed the weather station.

Displaying the Data

Marine MFDs (Multi-Function Displays) and chartplotters are nice.

Many boats have two. But they&#;re not cheap, and nor are charts for them.

We fitted a small one soon after purchasing Zen Again, and carried a spare.

As time passed one failed and the other was relegated to data display only.

Five years ago we started chartplotting and displaying data on laptops and tablets.

This change was enabled by the WiFi access point on our AIS transceiver.

This, together with the integrated GPS, makes the AIS the heart of the system.

Continues below&#;

It broadcasts its own data plus other data from the NMEA- network.

We&#;ve crossed three oceans and circumnavigated the UK using only laptops and tablets for chartplotting and data display.

They&#;ve survived storms and a lightning near-miss which destroyed a marine-standard interface unit and damaged one of our autopilots.

We carry fully configured spares.

With thunderstorms nearby we disconnect all their cables to minimise risk.

The apps we use are OpenCPN on the laptops and iNavX on the tablets.

OpenCPN is a free, open-source, full-featured chartplotter.

On OpenCPN we use ooSENC charts supplemented by satellite imagery.

iNavX is also an excellent chartplotter and uses Navionics charts.

We like the redundancy of multiple chart sources.

Both apps support display of real-time instrument data.

Most marine WiFi access points broadcast data as a NMEA- datastream.

For more information, please visit marine navigation equipment.

This limits the data to that supported by NMEA-. This was a serious problem in our latest upgrade which added the weather station.

Much of the new data is unsupported by NMEA-.

More research suggested SignalK was the answer.

SignalK

SignalK is a free, open source marine data exchange format.

It provides a means of sharing marine data in a future-proof manner friendly to WiFi, mobile networks and the internet.

The heart of SignalK is a software server which inputs and outputs NMEA-, NMEA- and other data streams.

The software translates the data streams to and from SignalK format and makes the SignalK data available to client apps.

Clients can be on the same computer or on other connected computers.

Each client gets only the data it requests.

Client apps can be on phones, tablets or laptops, aboard or elsewhere.

The only additional hardware required is a NMEA- USB gateway for about £150. An example use of SignalK is the open source system OpenPlotter.

OpenPlotter uses a £50 Raspberry Pi computer to run SignalK and OpenCPN, providing a full onboard MFD solution, albeit not to &#;marine standard&#;.

SignalK supports more than described below, including monitoring and controlling devices, and generating alarms.

On Zen Again we already had several BeagleBone computers aboard.

They&#;re less capable computers than the latest Raspberry Pis but consume less power.

We decided to try SignalK on one of them.

We purchased an Actisense NGT-1 NMEA- USB gateway and set to work installing the SignalK software on the BeagleBone.

Installation wasn&#;t simple but it&#;s now documented on our blog.

OpenPlotter comes with the software pre-installed for a Raspberry Pi. Our experiment has worked out very well.

The Beaglebone now feeds SignalK over WiFi to OpenCPN on our laptops and to client apps iNavX and WilhelmSK on our laptop, tablets and phones.

It also transmits wired NMEA- to our old autopilots.

We also have all the software installed and configured on a spare BeagleBone.

Both hardware and software have proven to be very reliable after several months of 24/7 operation.

WilhelmSK is a £20 SignalK client app which runs on iOS and MacOS.

It supports user-designed pages to suit your data and also your current situation.

For example we have sailing, anchoring and weather pages.

Beyond SignalK

With SignalK proven aboard we looked at what more we could do with our data.

We like to record our passages, which previously amounted to written hourly logs and electronic GPX files of our tracks.

SignalK supports output to the free database software InfluxDB.

InfluxDB was simple to set up on the BeagleBone.

This records all of our NMEA- data, giving us a &#;black box&#; recorder.

To view recorded data we installed the free graphing software Grafana on our navigation laptop.

The laptop accesses the BeagleBone&#;s InfluxDB database over WiFi.

We created Grafana &#;dashboards&#; to display our data.

While sailing we can view trends like speed, wind, current, atmospheric pressure and so on.

After passages we can capture summaries and highlights.

WilhelmSK can display web pages, including Grafana dashboards.

SignalK has given us a lot of information and enjoyment for the £200 hardware cost of a BeagleBone and an Actisense NGT-1.

Most of the software for these programmes is free.

Installing the software wasn&#;t trivial but it put the future of marine electronics on our boat today.

Adding recorded data display to real-time data display is certainly a plus.

Electronics gear

Actisense NGT-1 NMEA- USB gateway

Buy it now on eBay (UK)

Buy it now on eBay (US)

www.actisense.com

Raspberry Pi 4 Model B 2GB Quad Core 64 Bit Cortex-A72 4x USB WiFi Bluetooth 5 (2GB)

Buy it now on Amazon (UK)

Buy it now on Amazon (US)

www.raspberrypi.org

BeagleBone Black

Buy it now on eBay (UK)

Buy it now on eBay (US)

www.beagleboard.org

Enjoyed reading How to get the latest boat electronics &#; on a budget?

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Print and digital editions are available through Magazines Direct &#; where you can also find the latest deals.

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